intrikate88: (Default)
[personal profile] intrikate88
Summary: Throughout series one through three of Doctor Who, can we consider Martha to be Rose’s foil, and Rose to be Martha’s? And what does this say about each of their characters? Or do I just completely miss the definition of a foil entirely and text!spam my friends for no good reason, and fill my notebook with pages of compare/contrast spontaneous essays that do nothing for my academic standing?

Foil: (from The Bedford Glossary of Critical and Literary Terms) A character who, by contrast with the main character serves to accentuate that character’s distinctive qualities or characteristics.

Question: In literature, must a person and their foil actually be in the same places and interact or can they just be in the same narrative and contrast? 

Lindsey: I think it’s a little bit of both, actually. However, when in doubt, Panama City is the answer.

 

[profile] notfadeaway616: I would say just the same narrative. I just had a good essay class and am now I’m going to sleep in my physics class.

 

Darlene: Hmm well I think they would at least have to indirectly interact through some intermediary character.

 

[personal profile] firegoddess: Either one is fine, I think, but it’s better if they are both represented together.

 

 

It is often commented upon how different Rose and Martha are, right before a massive wanky discussion that is laughed at a few hours later on fandom_wank. (Or a few minutes later, in some special cases involving ducks.) And in many ways, they are quite opposite. The polarities are striking. Lower class/upper class; shopgirl/doctor; tomboy/girly; small family/large family; white/black (though that’s another issue that I don’t care to get in here, since it doesn’t really define my argument). Dating/single. Only child/one of three. The list goes on and on. They can be considered foils of each other, drawn together by the unified narrative of the Doctor and his travels.

Their stories, however, are very similar and reflect on each other, from long before their first episodes. We don’t know much about what happened to either of them before the Doctor came along, possibly as a method of illustrating that neither woman truly had a life before the Doctor came into it. We know a tad more about Rose’s background than Martha’s, however; we know about Rose’s upbringing by a widowed mother, about her lack of schooling, about a job in a shop and a comfortable relationship with Mickey. We also know, based on her remark in “The Impossible Planet” that she felt she had nothing but taking orders to live for, before the Doctor came along.

This is loads of information compared to Martha’s background, much of which we can only guess at; we can see she’s chosen to be a doctor, and that her family is close, despite her father leaving them for a younger blonde woman. It was never told why Martha chose to become a doctor, or why she has such a strong relationship with her family, to the point where she appears to be the one everyone relies on. We never see the history of Martha and her mother, and why Martha should be so eager to please her chronically dissatisfied mother. All these draw curious questions that are never answered on the show.

A similarity comes up in terms of education. When we first meet Rose we discover her to be a high school dropout. Why did she not finish school and get her A-levels? We never find out for sure. (However,

[personal profile] ninamazinghas written an excellent fic about one possibility that I’ve put into my mental canon.) Martha also chooses to leave behind her education to travel with the Doctor, thought she has advanced much farther than Rose in terms of education, being a first-year medical student. When she goes with the Doctor, it appears she misses several days of school, yet she doesn’t appear to care much- why? Is she counting on everyone figuring she was too traumatized after the Judoon incident to come in? And what does it say about Martha that she cares so little for her medical career that she throws it aside for a man she just met, and doesn’t choose to bring it up often, except to check for concussions and show up Joan?

 

I provide these examples of similarities and unanswered questions to support the idea that perhaps, instead of replacing Rose and taking the show in a different direction, Martha instead completes Rose’s journey as the Doctor’s companion, and takes her own journey in the process.

This journey begins at the end of “Doomsday”, on the beach in Norway where the Doctor finds himself unable to tell Rose “I love you.” The series then ends with Rose in love with the Doctor, and the next series picks up at the same point: with Martha in love with the Doctor, and waiting to hear him say “I love you”, which he never does, keeping continuity in the Doctor’s romantic arc; he never was able to say those three words (not even in “The Satan Pit”, where he chooses to chuck himself down a dark, possibly bottomless hole rather than tell Rose he loves her.)

We find continuity from Rose to Martha in their opinions of a normal life as well. In “Parting of the Ways” Rose opines there is nothing that keeps her in 2005, where a family and the possibility of employment await her. She reinforces this in Doomsday when she chooses to come back to the Doctor and leave her family. Martha continues this theme, even saying that the Doctor is her everything in one episode. However, she comes back to herself when her family is threatened in “The Sound of Drums” and chooses them over the Doctor. Branching into speculation, could we suppose that perhaps Rose must make the same choice? After being left by the Doctor, she still presumably would have assumed her place was with him, as it always had been. Like Martha, it would possibly be very easy for Rose to decide that the Doctor is all that she has, all that makes her herself.

Both Rose and Martha also illustrate an idea that there is no life without the Doctor. Martha’s character is sadly underdeveloped throughout series three; while we get to see many instances of brave behavior from her, from accepting being on the moon to traveling a world destroyed by the Master, the motivation for many of these acts is traced back to a love of the Doctor, instead of a physician-like desire to care for people, or a belief in the right thing to do (which might tell us more about where her motivations come from.) The single-minded goal of hearing “I love you” from the Doctor limits our ability to see her grow as an individual, since she insists on being defined solely in terms of another person. This very blankness of character (while giving quite a challenge to fanfiction writers) may be viewed as an impressionistic illustration of how the Doctor sees both Martha and Rose at this point in time: as people whose stories he chooses not to see, and are therefore invisible to him. (Though, impressionistic examples of post-modern/post-structuralist writing? From the Crackteam of Occasional Awesome? Really? Color me doubtful and possibly mauve.)

At the end of the series Martha is sent to Earth, leaving the Doctor behind, to tell everyone about him. This is quite reminiscent of when Rose was sent back in “Parting of the Ways” and told about the Doctor as much as she could in order to return to him: “He's fighting for us! For the whole planet […]The Doctor showed me a better way of living your life. […]That you don't just give up. You don't just let things happen. You make a stand.” When the Doctor sent Rose away again in “Doomsday” she again told the story of continuing to take a stand, this time through her actions. Knowing this tendency in Rose, it is not entirely presumptuous to think perhaps she continued to travel and talk about the Doctor, much in the same fashion as Martha. Like Martha, she too might hope that her worldwide journey will result in a reunion with the Doctor.

In the end of series three Martha realizes that she is worth something as a person, and that person is worthy of being defined on her own; “I’m not second best,” as she says herself. While she initially stayed with the Doctor for love, she ends by deciding to live her own life as an adventure, rather than living his. Alternately, for Rose, if she never finds a way back to the Doctor, and they never find a place where the Doctor can finally express his love, then Rose too will have to decide to leave her identity as the Doctor’s companion in the past and live her own life as an adventurer on her own. Martha in the end has returned to continue her education and move towards a career. Would Rose be pursuing a higher education, now that she has the finances, the time, and the supportive environment to do so?

After “The Last of the Time Lords” and venturing into series four spoilers, we know that Martha goes to work for Torchwood. While we have yet to see her experiences there, we can presume that it may come in the same variety as Rose’s experiences at Torchwood- telling what she knows of the life beyond Earth in 2007.

While we may never know what happened to Rose after the events of “Doomsday”, we can still look at the narrative as one story, instead of seeing it painfully broken off at Darlig Ulv Stranden. Though Martha and Rose are entirely different characters, the story does pass from one to the other, and perhaps through both of them, we can observe a sort of wholeness.  

Date: 2007-09-20 02:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com
Hmmm. I think I could see this better if I felt like the D/R relationship resembled the D/M relationship, but each relationship feels more like they repel each other rather than two halves of a whole. So it's kind of hard to think of Martha finishing Rose's journey during a time when the Doctor didn't quite seem prepared to accept someone who wasn't Rose. If we HAD followed a simple "Martha = Next Companion = Replacement" formula then it might make more sense in my mind. As it is, Martha essentially leaves, not because she's following Rose's path, but because she's defining herself outside of Rose's shadow.

Also, I kind of get snarfy about arguments resembling the "all companions are the same and must choose to leave the Doctor" thing. It's just a thing I have.

But this cracked me up for a good five minutes, so I thank you a lot for that:

This very blankness of character (while giving quite a challenge to fanfiction writers) may be viewed as an impressionistic illustration of how the Doctor sees both Martha and Rose at this point in time: as people whose stories he chooses not to see, and are therefore invisible to him. (Though, impressionistic examples of post-modern/post-structuralist writing? From the Crackteam of Occasional Awesome? Really? Color me doubtful and possibly mauve.)

Date: 2007-09-20 02:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrikate88.livejournal.com
So it's kind of hard to think of Martha finishing Rose's journey during a time when the Doctor didn't quite seem prepared to accept someone who wasn't Rose.

I do agree. I think what I was trying to get at (and it's nice to hear critique so perhaps I can go back and edit this in or something) is that while Rose and Martha are different, Rose passes on the role, with all its accompanying baggage, and that Martha has certain attributes to handle that role with its baggage as she does. Though since that's the case I basically just said "the teevee show exists!" and rendered this essay pointless. *ponders*

Also, I kind of get snarfy about arguments resembling the "all companions are the same and must choose to leave the Doctor" thing. It's just a thing I have.

I have that thing too. My brain and I had a fight for two days over going towards that conclusion. It appears I did not win.

But I'm glad I cracked you up. :P

Date: 2007-09-20 03:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com
Heh. I didn't mean to come across as overly critical. You know I love you, right? Right.

I think there are, definitely, interesting parallels in their journeys. Quite deliberately, the Who Crackteam of Occasional Awesome did set them up as foils for each other (to borrow your word, muha), seeing as how they are both young girl from London who fall in love with the Doctor. What I think is interesting is that, despite that similarity, their respective relationships with the Doctor ended up being quite different, as were their reasons for leaving the Doctor. Rose wouldn't have left if it wasn't for DD, and didn't really have to doubt the depth of the Doctor's feelings for her. Martha, on the other hand, had to leave in order to salvage her sense of self.

Date: 2007-09-20 03:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com
Oooh! And, also... I do think their stories are complimentary, in a way. Not that Martha is taking on Rose's role necessarily, but I don't think you could have had the D/M relationship if you hadn't had the D/R relationship first. And I think Martha's story is about coming to terms with that. The Doctor put Rose onto a sort of pedestal in his mind post-S2 (which I think he's entitled to, but anyway), and Martha can't compete with that. No one can.

But by "The Last of the Time Lords," Martha's come to a point where she can define herself outside of the Doctor, where she doesn't feel the need to have his validation to be awesome, etc. etc. I also like to think that's she'd let go of some of her bitterness towards Rose because I think Martha IS a compassionate person, so to stay cold to the whole parallel universe thing doesn't really fit with her character.
/rambling

Date: 2007-09-20 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrikate88.livejournal.com
Heh. I didn't mean to come across as overly critical. You know I love you, right? Right.

Pfft, don't worry about it. (I love you too. :P)

Rose wouldn't have left if it wasn't for DD

I just read an article about Catherine Tate and her big bosoms giving her problems with running around with the Doctor. When I saw DD, "Doomsday" was not the first thing I thought.

And yes! I think you're getting my points. If I knew what my points were. Which I don't. Though it appears I'm spouting them all over this post, hmm. But yes, the Martha story depends on the Rose story. And the differences between them bring out the strengths in each.

Date: 2007-09-20 02:49 am (UTC)
jedi_of_urth: (forever)
From: [personal profile] jedi_of_urth
While I do think that eventually, Rose will have to accept that there's no going back to her life with the Doctor (unless...you know, reunion) I don't think that's the same as seeing Martha as a means of showing that.

One big difference is that I feel like the story was influenced by Rose's past/backstory/family. We see more scenes between Rose and Jackie/Mickey in 'Rose' than we do Martha and her family all season (well, except TLE I guess, and throw in AoL and that's covered). While they're traveling, sometimes there's a casual mention of Jackie/Mickey/Pete/Shareen while Martha never mentioned her family unless they were connected with the plot (even in SoD, how long were they back in 2007 before Martha thought to call them?). That they were able to do 'Father's Day' is a testament to how much Rose's background was considered part of her character.

And a problem I have with your theory is that there are very different situations. Rose wanting to get back to that life/have the Doctor finish the sentence when she know, he knows, and we know that he *did* (and does) love her even if he didn't say it, while the reason Martha didn't hear that is very different and the reason she wanted it was some sort of validation. Rose never seemed to need him to say it, mostly because she knew how he felt; the trouble with Martha could also be said to be the same, she knows how he feels and it's not what she wants.

Rose and Martha are different characters, but I don't know that "rivals" is the right word for them. There was no competition, he cared about them both but he loved Rose, and they both knew it.

Date: 2007-09-20 03:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrikate88.livejournal.com
You're right, they are quite different. I was trying to show their similarities to display that Martha was somewhat well-adapted to take on the role Rose had to leave behind, and all the things associated with that role. But at the same time, as Rose's foil, Martha's differences do stuff like bring out Rose's strong background; as Martha's foil, Rose's connection with the Doctor shows how Martha doesn't have that and does have to leave the Doctor to develop fully. In my speculation about Rose's post-Doomsday journey as compared to Martha's post-Doomsday journey, it was to show the growing divide between Martha and the Doctor; the void that separates the two of them emotionally is as wide as the one that separates Rose and the Doctor physically.

Mostly I'm trying to find a way to look at Martha to make her more than the blank slate she is, to give her meaning and to find some analyzation and interpretation of her character to make me love her as much as I love Rose. Because Martha's fantastic, but I just can't connect. So I'm not proposing this theory as true- I'm just trying to find another way of looking at things to see Martha and Rose as complementary instead of competition.

Rose never seemed to need him to say it, mostly because she knew how he felt; the trouble with Martha could also be said to be the same, she knows how he feels and it's not what she wants.

That's a really fantastic way of saying it. *admires shiny wording*

Date: 2007-09-20 03:58 am (UTC)
jedi_of_urth: (seperated)
From: [personal profile] jedi_of_urth
In my speculation about Rose's post-Doomsday journey as compared to Martha's post-Doomsday journey

Oh I can see that, but...I still don't think it's a very clear parallel. Some similarity, that since (for very different reasons) neither got that life with the Doctor, letting go and coming to terms with that. But that difference in reasons makes a huge difference on why it isn't really a parallel; that and that Martha's took place with the Doctor. That would not have been Rose's journey with the Doctor, she has to let go of him because they physically can't be together, Martha has to let go because he'll never be who she wants him to be.

it was to show the growing divide between Martha and the Doctor; the void that separates the two of them emotionally is as wide as the one that separates Rose and the Doctor physically.

Aw, but the Doctor is emotionally with Rose even if physically he's around Martha, and I never really saw Martha as reaching out to him emotionally. And having physical separation from someone so connected emotionally is draining him. (admires wording back)

Date: 2007-09-20 03:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johannacarleton.livejournal.com
Saw this on timenchips and couldn't pass it up.

You pointed out something that I think has been bothering me for a while now but never realized it, Martha isn't a very well defined character. She IS only defined as Martha who's in love with someone who doesn't love her. Maybe that's part of why I don't like her as well as Rose.

Date: 2007-09-20 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrikate88.livejournal.com
Thanks for coming over here! Glad to have you. *passes around plate of cookies*

Yes, I was quite disappointed with Martha as well. Overall, as a character, I do like her. She should be a person I can strongly sympathise with- a college student, dedicated to learning and working, having to deal with the problems of test grades and paying rent. And then the Doctor walks into it all and makes it all the more complicated. I really ought to be able to identify and love Martha far more than a "Cockney tomboy" (to use Billie Piper's words.) But I don't. And I think it's because at the end of series three we know virtually nothing more about Martha than we did at the beginning, which is sad. She deserved better than that. But I think as for illustrating that the Doctor won't see Martha because he's focused on Rose, I think the writers did an effective job. We see Martha as the Doctor sees her: as just the outline of a person, standing in front of him, with as much personability as a store mannequin. And that was part of the points I was trying to make (or, at least, all the points I'm thinking up afterwards) that Rose and Martha have parallels in the way that Rose, though intangible, is just as present as Martha, who is tangible, but not available, to the Doctor.

Date: 2007-09-20 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] doyle_sb4.livejournal.com
Martha also chooses to leave behind her education to travel with the Doctor, thought she has advanced much farther than Rose in terms of education, being a first-year medical student. When she goes with the Doctor, it appears she misses several days of school, yet she doesn’t appear to care much- why? Is she counting on everyone figuring she was too traumatized after the Judoon incident to come in? And what does it say about Martha that she cares so little for her medical career that she throws it aside for a man she just met, and doesn’t choose to bring it up often, except to check for concussions and show up Joan?

Couple of points on this; she's a final year medical student, not a first year (she wouldn't be doing rounds in a hospital otherwise), and she brings up her career or does something medical in pretty much every story but Blink. She misses a couple of days, but since the consultant at the hospital's dead it seems feasible she wouldn't have had rounds for those few days anyway. I used to live with a bunch of medical students, skiving off for a couple of days wasn't uncommon and didn't mean they were on the verge of throwing in their careers :)

Date: 2007-09-20 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrikate88.livejournal.com
Thanks for the clarifications! I thought I had heard somewhere that Martha was a first year med student, and I was in fact quite confused as to why she'd be rounding at the hospital if that was the case. I actually work in a physicians' office and we have a new medical student every month, all of whom are in their fourth year of medical study and they, accompanied by the doctors, see patients in the office and also do rounds at the hospital with the doctor. (My office is right next door to the hospital- we have four infectious disease specialists who see hospital patients, hospital follow-ups, as well as primary care.) But in any case, the med students I have met tended to always show up, even that really flighty one we had a few months ago. That may be a reflection on the doctors and not med students in general, though. All in all, I had no idea if the system was different in the UK. (Sorry for the long explanation. That was just my thought process. I sometimes tend towards excessive verbosity.)

she brings up her career or does something medical in pretty much every story but Blink.

Does she? You may be right. I just really felt like I wanted to get to know her better, why she wanted to become a doctor and how those motivations play into her overall actions, and I didn't get to know her as well as I liked throughout the series. I'm looking forward to seeing her in Torchwood, though! :)

Date: 2007-09-20 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tempestsarekind.livejournal.com
Sorry, I deleted my comment because of typos. It said this, more or less:

(here from who_daily)

I really don't think Martha just throws aside her medical career to travel with the Doctor. In "Smith and Jones," when she says she can't go on a trip because she's, basically, got exams and a life, the Doctor counters with, "If it helps, I can travel in time as well." So Martha always assumes that she's going back to that life, presumably fairly soon after she left it. (As mentioned above, she does miss a few days, but that's not much, or irrevocable.) "Lazarus" doesn't disabuse her of the idea that she can get back without losing any time, and in "Family of Blood" she talks about going home to finish her training. So perhaps Martha sees her travels with the Doctor as a vacation, but she hasn't thrown her career aside at all.

That's a different issue from wanting to know more about Martha's motivations--I love the character, but I wanted to know more about her as well.

Date: 2007-09-20 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tempestsarekind.livejournal.com
And if I recall, she learns that she's been gone four days after learning that the Master has become Prime Minister--so she's got other things on her mind! :)

Date: 2007-09-20 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] salienne.livejournal.com
Here from Who-Daily and I just wanted to thank you for this essay and especially this comment that pretty much sums up part of it: But I think as for illustrating that the Doctor won't see Martha because he's focused on Rose, I think the writers did an effective job. We see Martha as the Doctor sees her: as just the outline of a person, standing in front of him, with as much personability as a store mannequin.

I'm not sure if I agree on the idea that Martha is a continuation of Rose (more or less), but that I'll definitely go with.

It's bugged me for a while now how underdeveloped Martha's character is, but if I view her in terms of the Doctor's journey, this lack of real development makes much more sense. Since I'm willing to give the writing staff the benefit of the doubt, I think I'll go with this interpretation. I like. :D

Date: 2007-09-21 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blessashell.livejournal.com
Here from who_daily. This essay and the subsequent comments just makes me even more distraught about how flat Martha is as a character. I think if they had just changed a few things, the pieces would've fallen together in such a way as to make her very dynamic and relatable, but they didn't. For example; her interaction with her family. I don't think she should've been so calm/smiley in Smith and Jones when we see her dealing with all of the nonsense that her relations throw at her. If she'd been more curt of impatient or frustrated, it would've made a lot more sense (in my eyes), that she would so wholeheartedly attach herself to The Doctor and his life because it was an escape from the pressures and complications of her own. OR (and I've discussed this with another like-minded person) if they'd made her romantically awkward. I would've loved that. If she'd been completely ostracized from relationships, was clueless as to handle them, etc., not only would that explain the contrast between her general maturity and her complete lack thereof when it came to her love of The Doctor, it would've given her a flaw that is easy to sympathize with and made her more of a tangible persona.

I just hope when she comes back that she's as wonderful as I'm sure she has the potential to be.

October 2023

S M T W T F S
1234567
891011121314
15 161718192021
22232425262728
293031    

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Feb. 28th, 2026 02:10 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios