More Ponder of Eight

[intrikate88]

In the previous lines of inquiry re: How the FUCK did Eight blow up Gallifrey? I mean, really? -

What HAPPENED to Eight? I know Nine, when talking about the Time War and all that, said that he was on whatever front lines there were and he saw the fall of... I want to say Abyssinia but it was some poetic place name...  and most of all, HE, Eight, was the person the Daleks named 'The Oncoming Storm'. The Daleks made terrified legends about Eight. THE EIGHTH DOCTOR OF THE FRILLY COLLARS WHO WAS A TOTAL DANDY.

I mean, Nine's kind of scowly and PTSDish, and Ten can just be dark sometimes and have his little genocide issues (sorry, that phrase will never get old, it's almost as good as the badfic Narnia "meekly smiling minotaur"), but all of that was the aftermath of what Eight had to do and did and was changed by. But how did he get so fucked up? Cause I assume that if Nine and Ten are the result of what happened in Eight's mind, there had to be some pretty serious Bad Shit going on in there.

That's something that's on my list of Things About Doctor Who I Want To Know, along with Wait Why Is Bad Wolf Seemingly Unfinished- What Happened to Eight?

Comments

[jedi_of_urth]

Hmmm, it occurs to me that a Time War could cause some serious fucked-up-itiness. If you figure the entire history of the universe is rewritten with every battle and a Time Lord who sees the shifting could get pretty messed up. And depending on how long the war went on (which has long been a part of my personal canon that it went on for a long time) and how much action he saw, I think I can actually see even Eight going from dandy to battle hardened soldier. Hell look at S2-Ten vs. S3-Ten and that was (although I'd rather not use the term) "only" the difference of losing Rose, not years of galactic warfare.

However, while I can see the war screwing him up royally, it's the action of pressing the button to end it that I can't quite give Eight because either dandy of battle weary I just don't know if I can see it in him. But I'm not sure I can see just regenerated Nine doing it either. Regenerating into his post-War self makes sense, but getting to that point is difficult.

Of course I have huge issues with thinking 'Rose' comes right after the end of the war, no matter how much he's still examining himself in the mirror early on.

I want to say Abyssinia but it was some poetic place name
Also, it was Arcadia.

along with Wait Why Is Bad Wolf Seemingly Unfinished

While I would be happy to entertain you with my theory of how it totally means Rose is coming back that isn't really what this post is about I suppose.

[purplemonster77.livejournal.com]

Here from who_daily, just in case you're wondering.

Hell look at S2-Ten vs. S3-Ten and that was (although I'd rather not use the term) "only" the difference of losing Rose, not years of galactic warfare.

I think you've also got to consider the fact that Rose was his first companion after the Time War, and she kind of helped him get through a lot of the darkness that resulted from it. Hence, losing her was not only traumatic in the fact that they were so close (and in love, in my opinion), but it also would be traumatic in that she was the one who kind of made him see the light again.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Heh. In my own personal crack canon, Eight blew up Gallifrey because he wanted to see the pretty lights!!!

In the previous lines of inquiry re: How the FUCK did Eight blow up Gallifrey? I mean, really?

I'm still stuck on that, to be honest. It IS kind of hard to imagine. Ten? Oh, yes. Nine? Might be capable of it, but he'd have a hard time on the follow-through. Eight? REALLY? EIGHT?!!!

Cause I assume that if Nine and Ten are the result of what happened in Eight's mind, there had to be some pretty serious Bad Shit going on in there.

Well, I do think that there would be a certain amount of PTSD involved in blowing up your own planet to get rid of the Daleks, yes. Especially when they don't even STAY dead!

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

WHY are you still up? You have early travels in the morning, young lady!

In my own personal crack canon, Eight blew up Gallifrey because he wanted to see the pretty lights!!!

OMG THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

Eight? REALLY? EIGHT?!!!

It just makes no sense! He looks too silly! What'd he do, shave his head? (This is my way of trying to imagine him being tough.)

Well, I do think that there would be a certain amount of PTSD involved in blowing up your own planet to get rid of the Daleks, yes. Especially when they don't even STAY dead!

Yeah, there is that. But even before Gallifrey went splodey he was fighting in battles and doing stuff against the Daleks. He wasn't really close with the Timelords in charge of everything, was he? I seem to recall hearing that. And I really don't think he'd drag a human companion into the middle of THAT. So him, all alone, fighting the Daleks and getting to the point where when he was faced with the choice to blow up Gallifrey, he was entirely capable of doing so.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

WHY are you still up? You have early travels in the morning, young lady!

Hee!

I kind of figure that if I go to bed, I'm going to be up all night worrying about not being able to get up in time. Maybe I'll just stay up the whole night and spam weird messages on LJ.

1:34 am: Have now decided Eight blew up Gallifrey because it didn't have any jam. Explains many things about Ten.

2:56 am: DALEK KHAN HAS INVADED THE ALT!EARTH.

3:33 am: Dalek Khan back from alt!earth. Doctor and Rose reunited. YAYAY. Need to go pee now.

4:01 am: Maybe Eight tripped and fell on a big red button that said: "DO NOT PUSH UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES."

4:45: Need... coffee... will... die.

What'd he do, shave his head? (This is my way of trying to imagine him being tough.)

BUHA! New personal canon. :D :D

By the way, how's your migraine? Poor thing! *pets*

[dkompare.livejournal.com]

Well, between the BBC novels (EDAs) and the Big Finish audios, Eight has seen some pretty damn traumatic semi-canonical s*it. To wit, and redacted for the spoiler-phobic, a few highlights of 1997-2005:

- one of his companions battles her AU self; except that the AU self is actually the "real" one

- another companion becomes a [SPOILER]

- another companion turns out to be [SPOILER]

- another companion was supposed to die in 1930, and her existence almost causes the [SPOILER]

- his {SPOILER] is destroyed

- he completely loses his [SPOILER] and is stuck on [SPOILER] for 100 years and several books.

- he gets stuck as well in [SPOILER], cut off from the [SPOILER]

- he removes his own [SPOILER] from his body, and it stays gone for good

And you can also add umpteen years-long imprisonments, myriad physical tortures, and oodles of blood, blood, blood. And more blood.

So, don't let the TVM fool you. The Eight Adventures (in whatever medium) were pretty grim stuff!

[kseda.livejournal.com]

I just had way too much fun trying to fill in the [SPOILER] blanks there... ahem.

[dkompare.livejournal.com]

Oh, you might be more accurate than you think...

and I forgot that in one book, he has a [SPOILER].

Imagine, a [SPOILER]! ;)

[kseda.livejournal.com]

...I may have run with this and posted my guesses on my LJ. Oops. (Sorry, comment-threadjack *waves*)

[fey-spirit.livejournal.com]

Hmm Madlibs Whoverse style.

[daisyrainwater.livejournal.com]

Oh Cripes! Spoil me, please! :)

[kseda.livejournal.com]

I decoded over at my LJ, but Wikipedia may be your best bet. Eight canon is... insane crack. It's lovely.

[daisyrainwater.livejournal.com]

Yikes! I've been all over the 'net in the last hour(s). I'm hunting Zagreus as I type this. Really, this is all distraction to keep me from, oh, cleaning my house or grading papers. Cripes.

Thanks, though!

[fey-spirit.livejournal.com]

Any way I could get you to spoil me? I've been desperately searching for info on 8.

[kseda.livejournal.com]

Butting in from who_daily and not really sure how much you know/want to know of Eight's "canon" in the books and audios but... yes, Eight did get to be and was well cabable of being that fucked-up. In a hysterical despairing woobie sort of way, as one does.

I think part of Nine and Ten's emo woe has everything to do with how far Eight fell from "Wee, pretty lights and comfy shoes!" to making his home planet go foom. They're mourning Gallifrey and the Time Lords, of course, but they're also mourning Eight. If that makes any sense.

[daisyrainwater.livejournal.com]

Sigh. I knew this was going to happen sooner or later. I must track down Eight. Starting with all the [SPOILERS]. Off to Wikipedia I go....

[platypus]

The Seventh Doctor blew up Skaro once already, and all along he's kicked the Daleks' collective ass in various incarnations, so I think the legends were already in place. The "Oncoming Storm" designation is mentioned in the New Adventures (Seventh Doctor), but it's another species that uses the term; IIRC, the Daleks called the Doctor the Bringer of Death or something similar. I don't blame RTD & co for liking Oncoming Storm better. But in any case, the Daleks are portrayed as considering the Doctor badass before his eighth incarnation hits the scene.

My vague idea was that the Eighth Doctor was the only one brilliant enough to do what needed to be done in the war, and was railroaded into it (or even ordered to do it) out of necessity. And by the time he got through with that, any remaining Dalek would pee its little metal skirts at the sight of him.

[maypanic.livejournal.com]

Don't be fooled by the Pretty and the Curls. During the entire (frankly horrific other than adorable!Eight) TVM he was suffering from massive amounts of crack regeneration sickness. He didn't have the TARDIS wardrobe to choose new clothes, he was just tired of wearing a sheet and stole the first thing to hand- which kind of imprinted on him. Probably when he got a mirror and saw how pretty he was. *cough*
Despite having the shortest onscreen time, McGann was the "current Doctor" for the longest stretch. As previously mentioned, in the books and audioplays from those years he fights some intense battles, both inner and outer.
Also, the audioplays have McGann's smoldering voice. *iz not at all obsessed. Really.*

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Heee! I like your explanations.

I'm seeing I need to start listening to the audioplays. I've been meaning to, anyway, and all the replies I've seen have just boosted that. So where should I start? Do you have any you could upload for me? I could probably find torrents of any of them, too.