Clinging Roses and Emasculated Doctors: The Canon and Fanon Criticisms of the Doctor/Rose Ship

[intrikate88]

There are a lot of people out there who don't like Rose. That's okay. Everybody responds differently to characters. Many of these people write meta on why they don't like Rose, and again, that's okay. I've read several of these posts; some of them have made sense, some haven't. Some have seemed to make sense up until the logic is deconstructed to reveal sentiments of "Rose should be happy staying home keeping her needy mother and ex-boyfriend happy and being domestic," which is a concept that sounds eerily like the "Angel of the House" ideals of the nineteenth century (and beyond) and aspects of the virgin/whore binary, and those aren't things that I can be comfortable with.

But one thing that appears to be a common theme among this demographic of meta-writing Rose-haters is an assertion that Rose is clingy and therefore emasculating to the Doctor, by inspiring him to cling back.

I can understand why someone might get the impression of clinginess, what with things like this:



and this:



But to generalize that she is clingy based on that evidence is to ignore her consistent behavior of NOT being clingy throughout the series.

Let's face it: travel through time and space would be some pretty scary shit. Traveling with the Doctor involves being penniless and homeless in a foreign place or time where you probably won't be the most popular sort of person: a human in alien territory, or a woman in a misogynistic time period. Personally, if I was traveling with the Doctor and knew that he and his TARDIS were the only things ensuring the possibility of my ever getting home or being protected from a nasty death that no one I knew would ever know about, and knowing the Doctor's tendency to get distracted and wander off? You couldn't peel me off him with a crowbar, y'all. Clingy? I'd be hiding inside his coat with a death grip around his waist.

But Rose isn't doing that. In fact, she wanders off just as much as he does. When there's an opportunity to investigate something odd or to help somebody that appears to be in trouble, she follows that. In her first opportunity to travel with the Doctor, in "The End of the World", she goes off to think, and finds herself sympathizing with a mechanic; shortly thereafter, she's kidnapped, leading the Doctor to label her "jeopardy friendly", which describes her rather well. Whether she's running off to find her alternate universe parents ("Rise of the Cybermen"), grabbing a fire extinguisher and going off to explore a spaceship ("Girl in the Fireplace"), or going to explore a freaky child's bedroom ("Fear Her"), she has no idea where she's headed or the dangers involved or who's going to kidnap her this week but she ventures forward anyway, away from the Doctor and the protection he could offer her.

Even when he's not around and she is kind of lost, she isn't paralyzed- she solves problems, even as she wonders not how she is going to be alright, but whether the Doctor is going to be alright. ("Fear Her"- "But who's going to hold his hand now?") When he is otherwise incapacitated, as in "The Christmas Invasion," she steps up to face the threat to her planet, using the knowledge she has of intergalactic politics.

While she may be close to the Doctor, she's not really that clingy; not as much as she could be. She's like she is because it is her choice- and the fact that she can choose, consciously, shows that she is a strong, independent woman.

And what about the other popular assertion, that Rose is emasculating to the Doctor, because he's always running after her or needing her? I think it is safe to say that he often works to rescue her, such as from the Wire in "The Idiot's Lantern" and from Cassandra's minions in "The End of the World." But does this cause him to be too dependent upon her, and make her nearness and safety the motivating factor of his actions?

I really don't think so. In "The Empty Child," he wanders off and leaves Rose alone in the middle of a German air raid. In "Father's Day" he walks out on Rose and her father. In "New Earth," he doesn't bother to make sure Rose gets in the right elevator (which leads to her possession by Cassandra.) In "Girl in the Fireplace" he leaves Rose on a ship, essentially stranded. In "The Satan Pit" he makes a choice that seems to epitomize all of these behaviors: to defeat the Beast in the pit, he essentially dooms Rose to being sucked into a black hole and killed. However, he doesn't do this because he's uncaring; he is able to make such a difficult decision because he trusts Rose's ability to survive. He is able to make decisions independent of concerns for her safety, because he knows that she is able to take care of herself independently.

However, in the end, they're not independent of each other in their relationship. And that's a good thing! One of the themes of the show is the triumph of human values, such as interconnectivity and relationship. They help each other and bring out the best in each other. While they can be successful on their own, it is the way they each complement the other that allows us to see their best features: Rose's kindness and bravery, the Doctor's intelligence and regard for humans.

In conclusion, I do think that feelings of dislike for Rose in other people are valid. However, if the argument explaining those feelings is not reasoned and supported with canon examples, there is no way for me to consider the argument valid. As far as I can tell from my understanding of the show and what the creators of the show have said, the Doctor/Rose ship makes sense, and is textually supported.

Yeah, bitches. I just pwned you all like only an English major can.

Comments

[threerings.livejournal.com]

Your response is much better than my "BWAH?"

I don't really understand how anyone could see a man needing a woman's input/help/prescence is emasculating. I wonder what kind of men these people know.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Well, didn't you know women are weak and emotional, and for a man to bow to that level makes them inferior? And that women are ruled by their feelings and uteruses and if a man needs that sort of help then he is lacking in hearty Man Wisdom? And if a man is devoted to just ONE woman, that limits his virility? And that if he allows a woman's input, that disrupts God's plan of godly male leadership and him being the "high priest of the household"?

Ahem.

For an odd hobby, andi_horton and I study gender roles and relations in fundamentalist Christianity, and contrast those literal, out-of-context readings of scripture with some of the actual themes of equality that are there. And one of the really odd things is that many of the ideas that put down women and elevate men actually are suggested by the women! Knowing that much (I've seen estimates as high as 95%) of fandom is female, it's interesting to see how many of these gender conceptions come through there, too.

[threerings.livejournal.com]

You know, this whole thing has made me really angry, not at Who fandom, from whom I expect this level of discourse, but at women in general. *sigh* So much ignorance.

Your hobby sounds like a very interesting and amusing way to spend your time. Not being Christian, I don't have a lot of input, but...the mind boggles.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Yeah... well, the thing is, our society still exists on patriarchal power paradigms. Trying to move past those -not just obvious ones, like equal pay and voting rights for women- is difficult and scary, and requires serious critical thinking about the way things work. Understandably, not everyone wants to embrace that.

I did grow up Christian, and have been disappointed in a lot of it by so many of the things I've learned. But I've also learned more about Jesus, through researching some bullshit beliefs, and his teachings are really quite revolutionary in assertions of equality of genders, classes, and races. I think that a lot of modern mainstream Christianity misses the point, but a way of living your life based on treating others with love and equality is worth following, I think.

[kayling.livejournal.com]

"Yeah bitches. I just pwned you all like only a English major can."

I envy your ability to write an awesome paper about anything. I'm dreadful at it.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

I totally just wrote it to procrastinate on writing a paper about The Maltese Falcon, too.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Fantastic meta. *This* is the show I've been watching.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Your bit of meta on why the Doctor and Rose go together inspired me too, so thanks!

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

:)

[jeonggam.livejournal.com]

THANK. YOU.

Finally, some points that make sense.

You make feel a whole lot less annoyed. And also make me want to go and watch Doctor Who. Again. Which is always a good thing.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Glad to help! XD

[katesutton.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this. While I agree that not liking Rose is a valid response to the show, there's an awful lot of meta out there that pulls criticism from the ether. Use canon examples, please, not just knee-jerk distaste to support your argument.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Even though fandom meta isn't for a grade at school, that doesn't mean that critical thinking and well-supported arguments aren't still called for. Fandom's kinda informal, but it's kinda peer-reviewed textual criticism, too.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

*cheers*

Great post.

Yes, there are certainly some sane reasons to dislike Rose. We all bring different life experiences and world views to the text. YMMV, that's fine.

But when an argument consists of ignoring 90% of what actually happens in the text, and making up a bunch of random nonsense that never happened, then yeah, it's not a valid argument. Especially when it mostly comes down to "she's blonde and 'curvaceous,' therefore she must be a clingy dumb blonde stereotype." *rolls eyes*

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. And while I can sometimes charitably think that maybe people are trying to critique the blonde stereotype, it more often than not simply plays into it even more, unfortunately.

Thank you for reading and commenting!

[honorh.livejournal.com]

"Clingy" is one of those things I just never got about Rose. She's no more clingy than any other woman in a relationship, and much less than most. And honestly, why is it emasculating for a man to lean on the woman in his life for emotional and physical support? Hello! We all know men need support; that's why we love them so. The Doctor is no exception. He needs someone to ground him. The scene in PiC in which Donna tells him to "Tell me what you need" is a perfect example. This is why he seeks out companions. Yeesh! Better with two, people, better with two.

Still think the "pedophile" argument is sillier, though.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Oh sweet Jesus on a pogo stick. I couldn't even begin to tackle the pedophile argument. Mostly I just pretend it doesn't exist.

I really liked PiC for that- down to the very title, it's all about partnership and connection. Connection between two people only becomes a problem when it is at the expense of a greater connection to the world around them and to their own health, and I think that that didn't happen with the Doctor and Rose together. Their being together actually strengthened their overall relationship with people and they were able to build each other up.

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

Thanks -- that was a good read. I agree, I don't understand why the idea that the Doctor and Rose are inter-dependant on one another would be considered a negative quality of their relationship. They are, quite simply, a very good team together. One of the strongest messages of New Who is that the Doctor is brilliant, but he can't do it all alone; he needs his companions, and that's a good thing.

Here from the_spdn

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I metaed and wanked about this in my journal just the other day. And I did a similarly English major-y thing with constructing a crapload of arguments (except mine were much less organized). Well, my post started out as a meta about companions and how Martha did or did not work as one. But the comments devolved into even more meta.

But, bravo! This was a great post that tore down a lot of the common complaints about Rose.

Re: Here from the_spdn

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Why thank you!

via the the_spdn

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

Um thank you. I'm putting this in my memories. <3

[tsukara.livejournal.com]

Hey, um, wandered in here from some line-up of posts ranting against that insane piece of...well. Anyways. I wanted to say that I completely agree with all of this.

Furthermore, I read through a couple of your other posts, and I was wondering if it would be alright for me to friend you? I can always use another fellow Who-loving English major about. :)

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Aw thanks! Glad you liked. I glanced over at your journal, and you look interesting and literary- let's be friends!

[yumytaffy.livejournal.com]

*wanders in via the_spdn*

I completely agree with your post. I've always wondered about the whole "clingy" complaint considering 1) the Doctor's whining about Rose constantly wandering off; 2) his sending her to investigate on her own many a time; and 3) he himself constantly wandering off towards the nearest shiny object. Sure, they enjoyed their hand-holding and post-danger hugging (and pre- and mid-danger hugging), but don't confuse that with an unhealthy need to constantly be around each other. There's a difference between "clingy" and "touchy-feely."

Personally, I think a lot of the Rose hate came from the Doctor spending a good chunk of S3 pining over her, which she didn't have control over anyway. Alas, that's another meta for another time.

Anyway, fantastic post! Thank you for sharing. It's well-written and well-thought out posts like these that remind me that at least some of us are watching the same show and that I, in fact, am not taking crazy pills.

BTW, did you ever spend time at SD-1 or around the Alias fandom? Your SN seems awfully familiar.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

You're so right about the clingy/touchy contrast. I do not know if s3 caused a lot of Rose hate- I came into the fandom after the end of s2 so I don't know what it was like before then. And I can sorta see why someone might feel there was something unhealthy about the closeness of their relationship if the results in s3 came from that. But I just don't think that on a canon level you really support an argument for that; I would be interested in seeing one that did. But I'm glad you liked this post, anyway.

Yeah, I spent a LOT of time in Alias fandom... I'm not involved in the actual fandom anymore, even though I still hold Alias pretty close. I wrote as Intrikate over at FF.n and was intrikate88 at SD-1. Wrote a few Sarkney stories, got a small following for my 'Outtakes' series that got me kicked off FF.n twice. Who were you over there? I might remember, though it's been awhile...

[yumytaffy.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, I didn't come into the fandom until, well, last September, so I don't exactly know how the fandom at large felt about Rose. However, despite my strong adoration for Rose, there were times during S3 that I started feeling an irrational annoyance towards her just because the Doctor wouldn't let go of her.

So yeah, I saw how others could have developed a dislike for her during S3 even though she wasn't physically there, and I adopted it as a theory to explain some of the Rose hate. I'm sure there are numerous other reasons, but I try to avoid the negativity. Didn't want to relive bad experiences from the Alias fandom.

Speaking of whch, I, too, spent a buttload of time in the Alias fandom back in the day, mostly in the S/V fanfic sections of SD-1, though. Maybe I recognized you from the post-ep forums? I was yumytaffy there, too, but I kind of flew under the radar, so you probably don't remember me.

Aw, it's fun seeing familiar SNs in new fandoms. =)

[sheron]

I wandered in and what lovely meta! Thanks, that's the show I've been watching to!

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Glad you agree!