On spoilers, friends, and Steven Moffat(t?). Or, where <user site="livejournal.com" user="intrikate8

[intrikate88]

This is sort of a reaction post for "Forests of the Dead". This is sort of a reaction post for the polarization I keep seeing on the subject of Steven Moffat (and for God's sake, will SOMEBODY tell me if his name has one T or two?) And I'm not saying it because anybody is wrong or right or that there are even those definitions on the subject, and I don't want to control what everybody else says in their journals. Just because its my friendslist doesn't mean its mine to dictate.

I didn't think that this latest episode was a bad one. I thought it was fairly decent; not as good as Blink, perhaps, but nevertheless fun, a bit creepy, mostly made sense, and had some interesting points to make. And I think Moffat wrote Donna with consistent characterization, even though it seems to be becoming established fanon that he's incapable of such action.

But I want to talk about spoilers.

It was a topic brought up in both parts of this storyline, how it was a bad idea to look ahead in the story, to read the spoilers. This is something we're all familiar with- remaining unspoiled, and not knowing what's coming; or worse, reading the spoilers, but not knowing how they're going to work out, which causes Woeful Angst. I'll come back to this concept momentarily.

Both the Doctor and Donna got a taste of spoilers in these episodes- not quite the complete trailer for next time, no, but Donna got the ambiguous message that something is going to happen to her that removes her from the Doctor's life. The Doctor found out that there is someone in his future that he will care deeply about and trust enough to give her the task of avoiding a paradox, giving her his name and sonic screwdriver to accomplish this. But neither of them found out the details, just enough to be worrisome.

We, too, as the audience have been given a similar taste of the future. For some of us, it's just enough to be worrisome- a future of Doctor Who with Steven Moffat in charge. Maybe we're worried about the Rose arc, maybe we're worried about the Doctor's sexuality, maybe we're worried about continuity, maybe boy's-club-style science geekery instead of character development... but in any case, we've been spoiled. And now we're dealing with the Woeful Angst.

And now Donna's wondering what terrible thing is going to happen to her.

And now the Doctor's wondering if and when he'll see yet another example of "love means watching the object of your affections get tragically taken from you."

But the thing about the future is that you don't know what form it's going to take. I think Susan said it best in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather:

     'I  can  remember  things.  Things  that  haven't happened yet.'
    'Isn't that useful?'
    'No! Because I never know what they - look, it's like looking at the future through a
keyhole. You  see bits of  things but  you never  really  know what  they mean until  you
arrive where they are and see where the bit fits in.'
    'That could be a problem,' said the oh god politely.
    'Believe me. Its the waiting that's the worst part. You keep watching out for one of the
bits to go past. I mean I don't usually remember anything useful about the future, just
twisted little clues that don't make sense until it's too late.'

What we know about the future, or think we know, doesn't always make sense. Or it might turn out, once we get there, to look nothing like we thought. But if we're always focused on the destination, on where we'll end up with this show, then we'll miss the journey. We'll miss finding out what happens as it happens, if we're always just waiting for Rose to return, or Moffat to be brilliant and/or fuck everything up.

And frankly, y'all, I don't want to miss the journey. I love the journey, and more importantly, I love who I'm making it with. You guys. You're all just as fun as watching the show.

I love goldy_dollar's cracky random (Roman numeral) notes and her wonderfully hilarious episode reaction picspams.

I love how mrv3000 can brighten up the dullest of days with some completely crazy and fantastic picspam and dialogue.

I love ninamazing's observations about how science really works and her insights on themes of feminism.

I love butterfly's eye for details that she can turn into such profound meta.

I love katrina87 and boxed and their gorgeous art and really cool fanmixes.

I love thunderemerald's deep analytical skills in navigating around so many themes that come up in the series.

I love inara223's knowledge of film and cinematography. Talking to her always makes me feel like I'm growing smarter and more cultured.

I love jesidres and her awesome art and cute chibis- I'm made of teh envy, because I can't draw.

I love orange_crushed's incredible fic and sunny outlook. And her macros.

I love how tsukara is so literate and knowledgeable and a good discussion partner.

I love andi_horton for watching all these episodes with me, in anticipation of the day we can actually share the same couch while doing so!

I love montycrowley for being eccentric and adorable (and I always have.)

I love kayling for understanding where I'm coming from on a lot of things I talk about.

And that's why I sigh and get tired when I see people saying that Moffat's Doctor Who isn't something they want to be a part of, without waiting to find out all of what Moffat's Who is going to be. Please stick around, with me, for the journey, and not give up on everything yet. Because I would miss you a lot.

Comments

[takethewords.livejournal.com]

:D

I almost didn't click the cut because I thought you'd read spoilers for the finale and were "disappointed" over them. lol Kinda funny given your post's subject.

I love how you put this. I'm still a little bitter about Moffat and I am worried about what he'll do to the show and I'm worried about Donna and I'm worried about Rose. But your post kinda puts thing into a new perspective that I think a lot of people need to take on.

Thank you so much for you compliment! And I love that you put me in the same line as Carina cause she is my idol, so. hehe

I'll be sticking around, don't worry. At least until the Doctor is settled down with kids and then I might have to skadaddle. ;)

I really think I need to read The Hogfather now. hehe

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

Doctor settled with kids = me turning to Desperate Housewives or something as my main fandom. And I don't even know if Desperate Housewives even HAS a fandom.

But thank you for reading this, and thinking about it. I do understand what people are worried about with Moffat, and why, but... let's see what happens. Glad you're with me for the ride. :D

(Ooh, do read The Hogfather, it's hilarious. Actually all Terry Pratchett's Discworld books are amazing. Read them!)

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

I am sorry for being such a bummer all weekend long! I'm trying to pull myself out of it now (itisonlyatvshow), but I really can't do much about how I'm feeling with regards to the series, you know? I think I'm feeling slightly less violent about it now, but I know I still hate the episodes, and I'm not feeling much in the way of squee towards the rest of the season. More like resignation.

ACK. I'm slipping back into melodrama. I AM SORRY. I hope there are more cracky picspams in my future. XD Also, I spent a lot of today writing fic, so that has to be a hopeful sign, right? (Granted, some of it was embittered "HOW DARE YOU DO THIS, STEVEN MOFFAT" fic, but it was still fic.)

And hmm. I think there is only one "T" in his name.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

*MASSIVE HUGGLES*

Oh, sweetie, I wish there was some way to cheer you up and bring back your squee. I know you can't help how you feel about the eps, and I hope that the rest of the season is better than just resignation-worthy. I do think writing fic is a good thing, though!

[ohvienna.livejournal.com]

You're the best, you know that? And I'm glad I sometimes sound like I know something about film; mayhaps the degree=not a waste of money.

I had such love for this two parter, and, you know, I went running around everywhere on LJ afterwards and a lot of what I saw just made me sad, and then kind of angry, and thus it all spilled over into a post of profound crazy, yelling off the rooftops madness. With this fandom, I always kind of held back a lot of times in reaction posts, and I think something just cracked completely in my head. These eps, they...literally took over my brain like nothing else and I was just so into them. They're not perfection, no, but they were just...everything I want out of a Who story, in a way. Crazy, sometimes nonsensical (but not in a bad way!), epic, emotional awesomeness.

I'm really excited about Moff. His taking the reigns is something that I really wanted to have happen for a while now. And I'm glad that you have such a good outlook on the future and I will most definitely not be giving up on this crazy train.

Anyway, we're all cool, right? I have such a guilt complex I'm now petrified I've offended everyone ever with mah crazy tiem post.

One T!

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Nice icon. ;)

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

*hugs* You're pretty awesome yourself, Katie dear. :P

Don't worry, I loved your crazy post, and look forward to the other post you foreshadowed on the subject. I really did have a lot of fun with both parts of this, but while waiting to watch the ep I saw all the harshing-on-squee posts and... I felt a wee bit crazy, too. Hence this post.

So. Very glad to have you with me. *scoots over so there's room*

[kayling.livejournal.com]

Hee, I was beginning to think I wasn't going to be mentioned in your Love and then I would be sad, but I was so yay!

Personally, I think that Steven Moffat (1 t, according to FOTD's titles) is a pretty awesome writer, and although these most recent two episodes aren't exactly my favorites, he still wrote some of my favorite episodes EVER (Blink and The Empty Child/Doctor Dances, both of which scared the bejeezus out of me the first time I watched them), plus Time Crash and the 1999 spoof Curse of the Fatal Death, not to mention another of my favorite Brit shows (Coupling). This most recent two-parter, in my mind, is on the same level as Girl in the Fireplace. I liked it, but didn't love it. As long as he's capable of producing stuff like Blink and TEC/TDD, I'm SO there, and if we get some decent but not excellent stuff in between, well that's okay. Nothing he writes could be worse than that shit called a finale that RTD scrambled together in series 3, anyway.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

I just found out that he did Time Crash and Curse of Fatal Death yesterday when I looked at IMDB, at was like OMG because those are both SO fun. I've never seen Coupling. So, I think even if he doesn't always live up to TEC/TDD, he's still going to be fun. And that things might be different, when he's overseeing continuity.

[(Anonymous)]

He is a bit crap at continuity, at least in terms of continuity with episodes that ARENT his own (but he's getting better! He tied in a little shop to Silence in the Library!). I also think it'll be really fun (and really creepy!) when he's head writer.
Coupling is great. It comes on BBC America somewhat regularly (and I think the PBS britcoms on Saturday nights too). It's effing hilarious. It's actually on right now and I am watching it. I would describe it as a better, raunchier Friends (3 guys, 3 girls, who've all basically dated each other, etc). They talk about sex CONSTANTLY and it's hilarious.

[kayling.livejournal.com]

sorry that was me. buggering log-in.

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

I has SKILLZ? Win, dude.

This was a fantastic post, you know. I am completely, 100% with you, and even if I wasn't insanely excited about Moffat taking over (which, let's be honest, I am), I'd still stick around long enough to find out what he was going to do.

*hugs*

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

You have mad skillz. I want to be you when I grow up.

Glad you're with me! *hugs*

[orange-crushed.livejournal.com]

You're a sweet thing, and this post proves it. What a nice reminder of all the love there is here. :) I <3 our fandom.

Personally, I love spoilers- I wouldn't read an advance copy of the script, I don't need that level of detail- but hints of what's to come only entice and interest me. I love the ideas I get from them, trying to figure out how or why it goes in that direction, even if I'm wildly wrong. (In fact, mostly when I'm wildly wrong, that's the best !) But, as you say, it's the journey. I love the journey so much that no spoiler has ever ruined that process for me (really, including Doomsday.)

But, of course, that's not everyone- some people have particular triggers that snap up walls when they hear something, and it does spoil their journey. I respect that everyone's experience is different, so I try not to spoil those who don't enjoy it.

Also, LOL, YOU'RE STUCK WITH ME, FANDOM. MUUUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ha. Hee. By which I mean, yay.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

You're quite sweet yourself. *hugs*

Spoilers are fun! For me, it depends on the fandom, though. Like for Alias, I was absolutely rabid for spoilers- as soon as an episode ended on Sunday night I'd be on the SD-1 boards, looking for them, running downstairs to go, "Family! Sydney kisses Marshall next week when they go on a mission together!" And they were not spoilers, they were sweeteners! When I watched Buffy, I couldn't help being spoiled, since everything was pretty much common knowledge by the time I got around to watching it. With Doctor Who... sometimes I'm okay with spoilers, sometimes they cause me angst. But yeah, some people are triggered by that, and get all angsty, and there's enough angst running wild and free and nekkid in this fandom, it's probably best not to stir it up. :P

LOL good to know we're stuck with you. WITH DUCT TAPE.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :)

And I have to say that I've got my doubts about being around when he takes over. First of all, shows tend to have a life for me anyway - I was wildly into SG-1 for years, but finally just wandered away in S9.

And second of all, after 6 episodes (2 2-parters) I've gotten a pretty good sampling of the style of storytelling we'd be getting with SM - what's important to him and what's not important to him. For the record, TEC/TDD is my absolute favorite New Who episode(s) ever for all 4 series. He can write fantastic stories, but I always find the main characters in them just so disjointed from everything else. For one quick example, in this latest episode the Doctor's IQ took a nosedive, realizing things way after the audience. Characterization is sacrificed for story. And at the end of the day, characterization trumps story for me.

It seems to me that when SM takes over it's going to be a very different tone, and just not as much care given to the characterization of the Doctor, whatever direction he decides to take him. He's used character development shortcuts too often for my taste (actually once is too many for me). That's very worrying to me, and really reason enough for me to say "I've had a good run with this show. Time to move on before I become another one of those bitter fans who can't let go."

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

I understand. Shows do have expiration dates, I know- I was rabid for 24 for a while, and then I just stopped. But I do hope that whatever you move onto next is something I know too so we can share it. :)

I do understand about the characterization thing- that's my top priority too, and one of the worries I also have about Moffat. But I want to wait and find out how he uses it when he's overseeing continuity from beginning to end, instead of just one-offs.

*hugs* But glad to have you with me, for now at least. :D

[andi-horton.livejournal.com]

Aww! I will vacuum our couch and knit pretty arm cosies for it and everything! And you in turn can keep me abreast of everything that is making this part of the internet go 'splodey since you know I personally rarely poke my nose beyond the squabbles of Christian feminists vs. Christian fundamentalists these days . . .

. . . any way to work a good headcovering debate into the issue at hand, you think?