tonight on the diaries of vampires...

[intrikate88]

....we ask the age-old philosophical question,

is it alright to roofie the girl who likes you if she had feelings for you anyway and maybe might have slept with you even without the GHB but I mean since you had it anyway, shouldn't let good drugs go to waste and all that?

That's not a dealbreaker in a relationship, right? Aw, c'mon, don't tell me we have to call it 'date rape' or any of that crap.

Okay, so you DID roofie her, but, like, is there some sort of Nice Guy clause in there? Just make sure, just in case.

Oh, sorry, I meant 'mystical blood link' instead of 'drugs we all know and don't love' 

but I'm glad we had a fun episode in Bourbon Street

and some long overdue girltalk even if that shit would not pass the Bechdel test

and some 1940s Lexi which, um, BEST LEXI wait what am I saying LEXI IS ALWAYS BEST BUT 1940s HELL YEAH

and I don't give a shit about Tyler, part 24,601

and oh the Love Triangle continues to be the actual worst.

Comments

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Ahh, but. But. The point is not that Damon roofied Elena. The point is that if Elena WAS roofied, Damon was unaware of the fact at the time -- and her conversation with Tyler proved that she was not. Sire-bonding influences your ACTIONS, not your FEELINGS -- and at the end of the last episode, they went out of their way to show that the initiation of sex was VERY much Elena's doing. Even to the point where she was the one who threw Damon up against the freaking WALL.

So as far as I'm concerned, the date-rape thing absolutely does apply to Caroline/Damon (from s1), but not at all to Elena/Damon. I don't think I will ever forgive Damon for what he did to Caroline (nor should Caroline herself, which is the only reason I put up with her bitchiness this episode), but I like D/E so far.

[intrikate88.livejournal.com]

I don't even know anymore, after someone else pointed out the inconsistencies and why the sire bond has more hole than plot to it (http://upupa-epops.livejournal.com/206907.html). Like, Tyler's saying here that it only influences your actions (which Elena going along with what Damon says, going ahead and having sex with him- it all could be influenced actions that she didn't think to question because she DOES have feelings for him) except that last season Tyler was saying that the sire bond DOES change your feelings and makes you feel loyal and have overwhelming faith in the person you're sired to. And Elena doesn't behave a thing like Charlotte, the comparison in this episode, beyond just a fairly surface resemblance of wanting to go along with what Damon says.

And I know Damon has changed and gotten sort of better but yeah, I don't forgive him for what he did to Caroline either, and that really colors my perception of all the other circumstances under which he sleeps with someone. Because he isn't a person to consider his action or the power he has over someone, no matter how tangible or invisible that power is. I'm not really feeling all Team Stefan or anything, but even if there is no sire bond, even if Elena is not forced to do things that Damon says or likes, she's still floundering and he's still a forceful source of guidance, which, is still a bit squicky. More the teacher/student kind of squick rather than the date-rape variety, but still. But again, that's me still thinking about Caroline and Damon.

Sigh. At this point I do actually think that Damon is a more helpful and supportive person for Elena to be with, if she's going to be with either of them. I think that Elena was right to call out Stefan for not accepting her as a vampire last week, and that situation kind of mirrors the situation Caroline had with her father. Damon IS the one who can just simply accept her no matter how she decides to live, and that's something I like. But I'm really side-eyeing the writers, for deciding on a plot that makes no sense in continuity, in order to push an idea that there is highly questionable consent in them getting together, which is not resolved by figuring out how to find balance in their relationship but instead by assuming that Elena's choice is compromised but she can still prove her love while lacking agency! .....or something. This is a mess.

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read that more-hole-than-plot post, too... and she's right. I'm starting to question whether or not the sire bond is real at all. I mean, it's entirely possible that Stefan and Caroline are just jumping to conclusions, Charlotte was just BATSHIT INSANE, Damon is insecure enough to believe in the bond with very little proof, and Elena knows so little about it that she'll go with whoever has the most damning evidence, because she is a professional pessimist.

But.

Let's assume for now that it does exist. We, as viewers, know that there is questionable consent happening here. But Damon? Not so sure about that. We know that he IS a person who doesn't always take consent into account, but this just seems to highlight even further the fact that he is ALL ABOUT consent where Elena is concerned. Elena was the one who broke up with Stefan -- who, with no prompting from Damon, told Damon that Damon was the reason she broke up with Stefan -- who crashed at Chez Salvatore instead of, say, Chez Bennett, knowing full well that Damon would be there -- and who initiated sex.

Knowing all of that, is Damon a better person IN THE MOMENT if he (a) goes along with Elena's advances, gives his own consent, and has sex with her? Or if he (b) backs off for her own good? The former is questionable in that teacher/student way that you mentioned above (which is kind of a kink for me, admittedly, not a squick, so long as said student is of age), but the latter would have pressed ALL my buttons the wrong way. And what other options were there, besides those two?

Personally, I'm kind of hoping they'll find out soon that the sire bond doesn't exist, but in the meantime... isn't the mess kind of the point? Isn't that why they ended it on a cliffhanger? Will Damon, knowing now that Elena might not have the agency that he once assumed she did, use his power over her to push her away? Or will he let Elena, who took Tyler's word as law, convince him that she DOES have enough control over her emotions that her feelings and related actions are real?

Re: Tyler -- yes, I remember him talking about loyalty to, and faith in, Klaus, because of the sire bond. But I also remember that he never actually LIKED Klaus. Loyalty and dislike aren't mutually exclusive, so I'm letting that slide for now.